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Author Topic: Popular Electoral Vote  (Read 262 times)

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Online Sledge

Popular Electoral Vote
« on: July 27, 2010, 06:41:46 PM »
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/07/mass_legislatur.html?p1=News_links

Quote
The current Electoral College system is confusing and causes presidential candidates to focus unduly on a handful of battleground states, supporters say. They also say that the popular vote winner has lost in four of the nation's 56 elections.

Presidential candidates now "ignore wide swaths of the country" they consider strong blue or red states and focus their campaigning on contested states, Eldridge said. If the president were picked by national popular vote, he argued, candidates would spread their attention out more evenly.

I don't agree with this statement. Look at the chart below and tell me what states the politicians will concentrate on to win the majority vote. Nothing will change except they'll be courting the populous states instead of the states with the most electoral votes (which for the most part is one and the same anyway).

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

ThePoliticalCapital

Popular Electoral Vote
« on: July 27, 2010, 06:41:46 PM »

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 08:13:33 PM »
Perhaps the view would be different if it wasn't done by state though?  You wouldn't win a state but instead just count the numbers as a whole across all states?  Maybe that's what he means.
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 05:31:00 PM »
Yea, but do you want elections decided on issues that are important only to Cali, NY, Texas, Florida, etc.? And do you think politicians won't pander to regions? The only thing that will happen from this is that state rights and sovereignty will be eroded even further. Control will concentrate even more in the fed government and away from the states. That's a crucial step in the socialist state.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2010, 09:26:02 AM »
You addressing that to me?  Personally I think I like that the votes are weighted to population but still give smaller sections significant enough numbers.  I'm a big believer of "We're all in this together".
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 06:01:02 PM »
I'm not surprised that folks who lean left support the "weighted to population" position. Population is concentrated in urban areas along the seaboards, which tend to lean to the left as well. If we allow the popular vote to choose our elected officials, what political party do you think will dominate American politics? Not just that, but what about the 70% of the rest of the country that is not on a seaboard, but only has 20% of the population? Lastly, what about the possibility that a state overwhelmingly chooses one candidate, but because of the law, the electorals go to the other candidate because he won the national popular vote? Why even have state elections? Hell. Why even have states?
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2010, 03:02:56 PM »
Are you ignoring what I'm saying on purpose?

OK I'LL PLAY YOUR GAME.

You want all states to have the same number of electoral votes?  You want the 70% of LAND MASS that has 20% OF THE PEOPLE to dictate the elections?  If you use Texas as an example with it's counties... it would be a few ranchers determining elections for millions of people in Dallas, Austin and Houston. 

I don't know.. I don't think Land Mass should have a vote.

So I'll repeat what I said before you blindly placed everyone into uniforms.
I like that the vote now reflects population densities (electoral college votes higher in more populous states) but still provides significant votes to smaller states (they have electoral votes.)

---------------------------------------
Let's do some math...

California:
Population - 38,500,000
Electoral votes: 55

Wyoming:
Population - 544,00
Electoral votes: 3


In California each electoral vote represents 696230  people.
In Wyoming each electoral vote represents 181,333 people.

Who is better represented?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 03:13:11 PM by paincake »
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2010, 04:46:24 PM »
California. With their 55 electoral votes, politicians can safely ignore Wyoming. Wyoming might as well not exist or bother to be anything different than what the people of California want them to be.

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..before you blindly placed everyone into uniforms

Is that a denial that liberals want urban centers with their poverty and accompanying entitlement benefits (as long as they keep voting Democrat) to choose elections?

Quote
You want the 70% of LAND MASS that has 20% OF THE PEOPLE to dictate the elections?

No. I'm saying states should be equal no matter their population. That's why we have a Senate, isn't it? To protect against the population and gerrymandering of the House?

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 11:27:42 AM »
Wait...

California is one person now?  You mean I vote the same as the other 35 million people in all issues?  This is a first to me.  So America has only 50 citizens?  And you say some citizens aren't equal to others?  Weird.. I never knew.  You've rationalized one vote for 700,000 being more representative than one vote for 180,000 people.  Good work.

What is the plan that you want?  You don't want the population to have the control (whether it be through electroal votes - of diminishing population representation- or straight popular vote) so what do you propose?  What plan could you devise where you think it would be fair?  (I read "fair" here meaning you get to win a lot)
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 05:02:36 PM »
I think what we have here is a disagreement on whether states are sovereign within themselves. You can vote a hundred bazillion ways that you want in California, but your hundred bazillion votes shouldn't override the five million votes in Wyoming. California has no more business telling Wyoming what to do than the US has telling Iraq what to do.

Fair to me means every state has an equal say, this is the UNITED STATES after all (not the Union of Urban Centers) . Liberals hate that idea, I know, because the majority of states tend to lean right.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 10:37:10 AM »
WTF seriously?

We're talking about electing the president right? 

You don't want popular vote because then California gets more votes.  You don't want the populated state to have more electoral votes because then California gets more votes.

WTF do you want?  How about California just doens't get to vote.  Fair for you?  Stupid.

If Wyoming had as many electoral votes as California you do realize that would mean 500,000 votes = 35,000,000 (if they all vote one way).  What if that 500,000 voted democrat and the 35,000,000 voted Republican.  I bet you'd shut up then. 
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 05:05:00 PM »
Like I said, our disagreement is more along the lines of states rights. Our intrusive federal government thinks it has the authority to interfere on local issues that don't relate to interstate commerce. In that regard, the people of California has no authority to tell the people of Wyoming what they can or can't do, simply because they out vote them on a national level. Sorry.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 10:32:59 AM »
The electoral college is used for local issues now?
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 11:37:07 AM »
No, but apparently the federal government is. Stop pretending that the feds don't impose laws and regulation on local activities that don't even come close to interstate commerce.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken

Online paincake

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 03:56:28 PM »
Let me get this straight...

You posted a pie graph of the electoral college, used for Presidential elections, and then ranted about how politicians will not concentrate on small states because of the lack of votes necessary for winning.  You don't want popular vote and you don't want the electoral college because they both favor liberals.  However, you aren't talking about presidential elections anyway (where the electoral college is used) you're talking abou tthe Federal government imposing laws on local areas.  You're somehow tieing the electoral college (election of the president) to this activity. 

What politicians are ignoring all those states when they campaign?  Congressmen?  Senators?   Are you telling me Wyoming senators are now ignoring Wyoming in favor of California because they'll get all those electoral votes?

................

If you have a problem with the Federal government's extension of powers that is one thing (it is largely done through money and regulatory agencies) but some how tying it to the electoral college (and presidential election) is just wrong.  You make it sound like the federal government meddles in Wyoming's business but not California's because they have more votes. 

It doesn't add up.
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Online Sledge

Re: Popular Electoral Vote
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 05:23:23 PM »
The executive branch (ie the president) isn't in charge of the federal agencies that are busily shoving their nose in everyone's affairs down to the smallest one man business? And it's equally as untrue that he (the current president (ie, the one elected by the electoral college (or the popular vote, as you'd like to see))) hasn't been appointing unelected "czars" (bypassing our state elected congress) to oversee all of this? Since when did a congressman run a federal agency? Who's in charge of the EPA? OSHA? Food and Drug? Agriculture? Commerce? If not our electoral college elected president, then who? You're so busy parsing words trying to catch me in some sort of inconsistency that you've forgotten than congress doesn't run ANY federal agency.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H. L. Mencken
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